Memes, Marketing, and Moat: From Growth Hacking to Great Writing with Jason Levin

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Welcome to the Smooth Operators Guide, where we get into the intricacies of growth, app stacks, plugins, and everything in between.

Join Anirudh Madhavan as he sits down with Jason Levin, Head of Growth at Product Hunt. He discusses his background in growth, content creation, and data engineering. He shares how his data engineering background influenced his approach towards growth and how he combines creativity with technical knowledge. Jason also talks about the importance of understanding data and using it to drive growth. 

We're thrilled to have him on this edition of our biweekly newsletter to share his insights and expertise. So, without further ado, let's get into it:

Ani: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the third episode of Smooth Operators Guide by LiveDocs. Today, we have Jason Levin, head of growth at Product Hunt. Jason, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Jason: Sure! I've been creating content since I was a kid and eventually became a data engineer. I combined my technical skills with startup and writing. I’ve been ghostwriting for founders for the past three years and now I'm the head of growth at Product Hunt. I run Product Hunt's Twitter, and LinkedIn, events, and support our amazing community of creators and makers. My job is to help them succeed, make money, and stay motivated.

A Journey from Data Engineering to Growth

Ani: Awesome. So Product Hunt is your recent stint. Let's walk down memory lane. You started as a data engineer at American Express and moved into growth roles. What inspired this shift, and how did your background in data influence your approach to growth? 

Jason: Good question. I don't often talk about my data engineering background because it can be confusing. The simple answer is I made more money writing than data engineering, as building an audience online can be very lucrative. Also, writing is more enjoyable for me.

Initially, I didn't know any code, but I learned through Lambda School (BloomTech). Resources like LearnSQL.com helped me prepare for job tests. Anything is learnable with effort.

Bridging Data and Creativity

Jason Levin: I was competent in SQL and Python but not exceptional. Writing, on the other hand, was a natural talent for me. Data engineering paid the bills and gave me a crucial understanding of how everything runs on databases. This knowledge is valuable in growth roles; for instance, I can understand and manipulate data tables, like pulling SQL queries for newsletter subscribers. 

"Coming into the marketing domain, knowing even a little bit of code, knowing how to like connect things, automate stuff, that's like a really, really untapped superpower."

Combining data skills with creativity, such as using memes to drive engagement, makes you highly effective. Memes can significantly boost interactions and even recruitment efforts, as seen with companies like a16z. The fusion of data and creativity fuels successful growth strategies.

The Superpower of Coding in Marketing:

Ani: Knowing a bit of code and how to automate things is like a new superpower in marketing. As head of growth at Product Hunt, it can be really chaotic, but you seem to handle it with ease. 

What are your main responsibilities, and how do you prioritize your efforts to drive growth?

Jason: I love the chaos of marketing and creating. It might be the ADHD; I’ve been on Twitter since I was 13. As Product Hunt's head of growth, my responsibilities include running our Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. I tweet about new products and memes on Twitter and LinkedIn. 

For Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube, I manage an agency called Clip.co, which does a great job. I also manage a freelancer helping with growth. Transitioning from just a writer to a growth manager role, I've shifted focus from growth hacks to growth systems, finding repeatable processes.

"Consistently keeping track of data keeps you grounded and helps you increase revenue and subscribers."

For example, my friend Ish Perduzo, ex-LinkedIn and now head of social media at Andreessen Horowitz crypto, advised growing a brand’s LinkedIn by posting on the founder's page and tagging the brand. We're implementing this at Product Hunt with posts from me and our CEO Rajiv, tagging Product Hunt. These repeatable processes are powerful. Growth hacks come and go, but growth systems are key to taking Product Hunt to the next level.

Effective Time Management and Synergy in Roles: 

Ani: Strategy is unique to every organization and ongoing, while tactics are common. To achieve strategy, you need to perform various tactics. When you talked about systems, it reminded me of this. You're juggling multiple roles. 

How do you manage your time effectively, and what tips do you have for others? 

Jason: Honestly, a lot of coffee and late nights. I rely heavily on Notion; I'd be lost without it. Slack is also essential. Sometimes, getting things off the computer and onto a notebook is the best way. I make lists of daily tasks and plan. I've tried many reminder apps, but scheduling emails to myself works best. I treat my email inbox as a to-do list.

Find methods that work for you and look for overlaps in your tasks. My roles—ghostwriting, working with Product Hunt, making memes, and writing my newsletter—intersect around growth. For instance, if I help host a Product Hunt event, I write about it in my newsletter and on LinkedIn, which helps grow both. Finding this synergy took time, but now my work and content feed into each other, creating a seamless workflow.

I write about my work rather than random case studies, making sure everything connects. Content ideas are everywhere—emails, texts, DMs with friends. Consistency is key. When an idea hits, just start writing. I write on the subway, in Ubers—wherever. Finding work that overlaps is crucial.

Another tip: I make memes in Google Slides. It's simple but effective. I learned this from Chris Bakke, founder of LastKey, who sold it for over $100 million to Elon Musk, a meme lord on Twitter with 200,000+ followers, who shared that he makes memes quickly using Google Slides. Despite being a CEO, he uses simple tools because they work. High-leverage, dumb free stuff often works best. That's the core idea of my book, Memes Make Millions—memes are free, quick, and can easily go viral.

Leveraging Memes for Growth: 

Ani: I'm a big fan of Topline's LinkedIn page, which uses memes predominantly to grow. Memes engage the community much more naturally than other content forms. The right meme at the right time can blow up. 

Jason: Absolutely. Everyone loves to laugh and share memes. But remember, memes alone don't make millions. You need a good product or service to sell, a process for talking to advertisers, and a strategy to leverage the viral potential of memes.

The title of my book, Memes Make Millions, goes beyond just making memes. If you're using memes for marketing, ensure you have a strong product or service to support it. For Product Hunt, we use viral memes to promote our newsletter and generate revenue through advertisers. Similarly, I use viral tweets to promote my book or courses. I've seen B2B SaaS and finance companies use viral memes to secure six-figure contracts.

The leverage of combining viral content with a solid product is immense.

You don’t need to spend millions on traditional billboards; you can create a shareable "billboard" on the internet. To make content go viral on platforms like Twitter and LinkedIn, deep research is key. Think of it like college research—sharing with a wider audience instead of just a professor.

For younger or less established voices, focus on sharing what you're learning rather than giving advice. Be genuine and humble, and maintain a tone of curiosity and learning. People appreciate content that is either very funny or highly informative. If you can balance both, even better. Consistently providing valuable or entertaining content will pay off over time.

It's taken me years to get to 25,000 followers on Twitter, and it's been two or three years. LinkedIn is a long haul too. Every platform takes time.

The Power of Writing in Growth Strategies

Ani: Write, educate, and entertain. Yeah, I'm going to remember that. Writing helps structure your thoughts for sure. Does writing for your newsletter, Cyber Patterns, or other platforms tie into your growth strategies, and what impact has it had on your personal and professional brand?

Jason: Writing my newsletter changed my life. I started writing online because I wanted to share my thoughts. I had no idea how to grow it, but my friend encouraged me to do it. Nothing happened for a few months. Then I decided to write weekly, every Sunday. I've written my newsletter for 150 Sundays straight. I can take long-form pieces from every newsletter and turn them into tweets, LinkedIn posts, etc., whether it's a screenshot or just copying and pasting and tweaking things.

"Building a newsletter, I think, is probably the second best way to build loyalty on the internet."

Writing clarifies your thoughts, and most importantly, the relationships I've built with my readers are incredible. For example, I've met people through my writing who have become close friends. One of them even attended my wedding. A blog is a great way to find friends on the internet, just by sharing your thoughts. You'll find people who are thinking about similar topics.

It's also helped me build a reputation. I put a lot of work into Cyber Patterns, and you can tell by looking at it. I spend a long time on the artwork, using Midjourney and Photoshop to edit it, trying different variations. A newsletter is one of the most personal and powerful ways to connect with an audience. It allows you to share your deep thoughts, build trust, and create lasting relationships.

Consistency and Authenticity in Writing

Ani: That's inspiring. The dedication to writing every week and the effort you put into it shows. It's clear that building these connections and maintaining consistency have been key to your success. Do you have any final tips for those looking to start their own newsletters or improve their writing consistency?

Jason: Consistency is key. Commit to writing regularly, whether it's weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. Stick to that schedule no matter what. Also, don't be afraid to share your personal experiences and thoughts. People connect with authenticity. Engage with your readers, respond to their comments and messages, and build those relationships. Finally, be patient. Building an audience and a reputation takes time, but the rewards are worth it.

The Future of Product Hunt

Ani: I just want to talk a little bit about the future of Product Hunt because Product Hunt is evolving every week, every month. What trends do you see shaping the future of Product Hunt? And how is the platform evolving to meet the needs of its community?

Jason: Yeah, so Product Hunt is in a very fun place right now. We have a new CEO, Rajiv Iyengar, and our team is small, lean, and fierce—small and mighty, you know? We are in a fantastic spot right now. The main way we are really evolving is by doubling down on community events.

We've been hosting AI demos in San Francisco and New York City, and we're actually letting the community all around the world host events. So everywhere from Taiwan to Rome to Spain, people are hosting their own pop-up events where people get together. At the end of the day, people are on Product Hunt for life. It's pretty cool when you think about it. If you launched a product 10 years ago, you're going to launch again on Product Hunt if you're an indie maker, an indie hacker, or a startup person.

Another thing is we're working on cool new features. We shipped a feature called Shoutouts. When you launch, you shout out other products you used to build your product. So, let's say I am launching a SaaS and I used Notion or Bubble, the no-code tool, I shout it out. This is an amazing way to see what the best startups are using to build their startups.

We're also working on a lot more right now. My main focus is building up this media machine. We want to become a media machine across platforms. One of the main things has been building up our team's accounts on social media—building up the CEO, building up Aaron O'Leary, one of our writers. I've helped him grow on Twitter a lot, and he's killing it. When you're a startup, you are a media company. Especially with something like Product Hunt that has so much personality, you need your media personnel to have audiences and leverage to help grow.

Thoughts on Emerging Trends in Growth Strategies

Ani: That sounds amazing. These new features and strategies sound like they'll bring even more value to users. What is your advice for anyone looking to get involved with Product Hunt or the startup community?

Jason Levin: Yeah, my advice would be to just dive in. Start engaging with the community, attend events, and don't be afraid to launch your product. Even if it’s a small project, the experience is invaluable. Connect with other makers, share your journey, and be active on social media. Building relationships and being consistent with your efforts will pay off. And remember, it's all about learning and growing together.

Ani: What are some of the emerging trends that you see in growth strategies within the tech industry? And how should up-and-coming or even existing big companies adapt to this AI-driven landscape?

Jason Levin: One of the biggest trends is meme marketing and shitposting in general. You see everyone from Nikita Bier to Chris Bakke, and a lot of founders in between, posting memes, jumping on trending topics, and engaging with goofy ideas. It's a great way to stand out from the crowd and get distribution. Many founders and even VCs are jumping on that.

"Another significant trend is podcasts. Every company, every founder, should consider having a podcast."

‍Jam.dev is doing something cool where the entire team has a podcast. Every week, the core team gets together to talk about what it's like building Jam and a company in general. This approach not only helps in building a community but also provides transparency and a behind-the-scenes look at the company's growth. Building loyalty is crucial, especially after achieving product-market fit.

I also find speaking my ideas out loud very useful. For whatever reason, the new MacBook makes it easier to do that. I actually speak a lot of my blogs to text and do the same for tweets. I often do it while on walks. This method helps me think through ideas and produce content more efficiently.

Rapid-Fire Round

Ani: Okay, I have a rapid-fire round. Just quickly about the tools that you use, right? 

Which tool would you say is your Swiss Army knife?

Jason Levin: For me, it's Tweet Hunter for scheduling tweets, Taplio for LinkedIn scheduling, and Readwise for pulling Kindle highlights into Notion. I use Notion for my content calendar and more—it even helped my wife and me plan our wedding. Slack is my go-to for communication; I'm not a Discord fan. I'm also getting into Figma, which I think marketers should learn as well. Lastly, Beehive is fantastic for newsletters; it's the best platform for growth and supporting writers.

Ani: Wow, the next one is one tool that you cannot live without in your stack.

Jason Levin: Readwise is crucial for me. It consolidates all my notes and highlights in one place, which is invaluable for writing. It helps me pull quotes for tweets and blog posts. I also couldn't do without Calendly and Stripe. Stripe is essential for my business, and I appreciate it so much that I even made a shirt that says "Stripe Beast." Stripe fees are worth every penny.

Ani: An undiscovered gem in your stack.

Jason Levin: One undiscovered gem is Aqua Voice. It's a YC-backed Google Chrome plugin that converts speech to text. Rajiv, our Product Hunt CEO, told me about it, and it's pretty cool.

Final Advice for Aspiring Growth Professionals

Ani: I have one final question. What would be your advice for aspiring growth professionals, particularly in the tech and startup ecosystems?

Jason Levin: My advice is to "F around and find out." Try a bunch of things. I've failed at many projects—there's a whole graveyard of them. I even wrote a post about it. The key is to experiment. I’m not great at paid ads; I find them boring and don't excel at them. But I tried them.

Find what you're good at by exploring various areas. My expertise lies in organic marketing, humor-based marketing, and meme marketing. Event-based marketing is not my favorite. Discover what you enjoy and can see yourself doing every day for fun and profit.

Also, consider market needs. For growth marketers: "F around and find out," try different approaches, embrace failure, and that's how you'll learn what works and what you enjoy.

Ani: And that is the end of my list, Jason. Where can people find you in general?

Jason Levin: You can find me on Twitter @iamjasonlevin, my newsletter at cyberpatterns.xyz, and my book at memesmakemillions.com. Feel free to reach out or DM me on Twitter or LinkedIn. I respond to everything.

Epilogue

Jason provides key recommendations for marketers to learn data skills and the power of using memes in marketing:

Takeaway #1: Creating viral content using memes on platforms like Twitter and LinkedIn requires deep research and a focus on educating or entertaining the audience.

Takeaway #2: Understanding data is a valuable skill for marketers and can fuel creativity.

Takeaway #3: Building a newsletter and staying consistent helps build loyalty and escape competition.

Takeaway #4: Founder-led marketing and team branding are important trends in growth strategies.

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