Bob Moore on Mastering Ecosystem-Led Growth, AI Strategies, and Data Challenges in Startups

Join Anirudh Madhavan as he sits down with Bob Moore for the very first episode of the Smooth Operators podcast where we dive deep into the world of entrepreneurship and leadership.

Back in the day, just three days before the Lehman Brothers went belly up, Bob's career began its rollercoaster ride. From those uncertain beginnings, he's built not one, but two successful companies.

Today, Bob joins us to share the real lessons he's learned along the way. As the Co-Founder and CEO of Crossbeam, a platform that turbocharges company growth through partner ecosystems, Bob's insights are gold.

Before Crossbeam, he co-founded Stitch, which found its way into the arms of Talend, and RJMetrics, which got snatched up by Adobe via Magento Commerce. On top of all that, Bob's also a National Bestselling author for his book "Ecosystem-Led Growth."

Beyond the boardroom, Bob's deeply connected to Philly's tech community, serving on The Franklin Institute's board and playing key roles in Philly Startup Leaders and PACT. Oh, and did we mention he's a big fan of improv comedy? Bob's been lighting up Philly stages with Big Baby for years.

So, buckle up as we chat with Bob Moore about AI, scaling startups, and how to navigate the wild world of data in today's business scene.

Read on to learn the major highlights of the podcast:

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Ani: In my 10 years of startup experience, you need a few key elements: luck or strong tailwinds, a great network, and the right timing. You started your entrepreneurial journey right after the Lehman Brothers collapse. Can you walk us through that time?

Bob Moore: I've been lucky in many ways in my career, and that period was a significant milestone. My career really took off during one of the worst chapters in financial history. I graduated with an engineering degree and took a job in 2006 with Insight Partners, a venture capital firm in New York City. They've been around for 20 years and have a lot of capital, which gave me valuable exposure to the world of founders and how companies are built.

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Ani: Many of us struggle with launching one startup, yet you've started two and came back for another. What made you come back for more? And can you give a quick pitch about what you're solving with Crossbeam?

Bob Moore: Yeah, so I am criminally insane, I think is the answer to your question. But I find a lot of self-actualization in my work and entrepreneurial pursuits. They’re intellectually stimulating and challenging. The reason for doing the third one was a "Goldilocks situation."

RJ Metrics was a long, drawn-out journey that ended in a private acquisition after eight years, leaving some opportunities unfulfilled but providing valuable lessons. We then started Stitch Data, which grew rapidly and was acquired by Talend in under two years. That success left us wondering if we sold too soon, missing out on even greater potential.

Feeling I had more to achieve, I saw a compelling reason to start Crossbeam in 2019. At RJ and Stitch, we frequently faced challenges involving data and partnerships. Crossbeam addresses this by acting as a secure, third-party data escrow service. It allows companies to collaborate and share data safely, driving growth through strategic partnerships and technology integrations.

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Ani: What are the first questions to ask when exploring data-sharing with a partner and measuring success?

Bob Moore: Well, it's probably things like, hey partner, how many customers do we actually have in common, and who are they? Or, hey partner, are my sales reps currently selling to any of the same companies that your sales reps are selling to?

These questions require a comparison of both companies' data, which leads to a challenge: neither company wants to overshare, creating a "prisoner's dilemma" scenario. Both companies would benefit from sharing data but are hesitant to do so.

This issue is widespread across industries, affecting both small and large companies. The solution lies in creating a secure, third-party service to manage and unify this data. Crossbeam was developed to serve this purpose. It acts as an "escrow service" for data, securely connecting with APIs from Salesforce, HubSpot, Google Sheets, etc., and translating data into a universal model.

Crossbeam allows companies to control who sees their data and under what circumstances. For example, summary statistics can be shared with many partners, while detailed information is shared with a few preferred partners. This facilitates better decision-making and new go-to-market strategies based on shared data.

Ultimately, Crossbeam aims to create a reliable data layer that enables companies to collaborate more effectively and leverage their partner ecosystem to drive business forward.

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Ani: I come across this problem quite often in my previous startups, even right now. So I think partnerships have been a strong driver for us, especially with events and webinars. Sharing customer data has always been tricky, and I think Crossbeam has sorted that out.

Bob Moore: That's great to hear. It's important to note that Crossbeam's success didn't happen overnight. We're speaking in 2024, but I started this story in 2019. The first three years were a real slog because Crossbeam is a network effects business, like LinkedIn for data. Imagine signing up for LinkedIn when no one you know is on it—that's the challenge we faced in 2019 and 2020.

We had to solve the cold start problem typical of network effect businesses, but with more friction since users needed to connect their Salesforce instance to get started. The first two to three years involved creating low-friction onboarding experiences, inviting partner networks, and manually onboarding companies in pairs to create atomic networks. By 2021, the network started growing on its own.

We track K-Factor, a measure of virality. If K-Factor is over one, the network grows exponentially. We achieved this early on, leading to over 20,000 companies on the Crossbeam network today, with 70% joining through invitations. Now, it's rare for new sign-ups not to have a partner already on the network, but that wasn't the case in the beginning. This unique journey was very different from RJ Metrics or Stitch, where the product only worked if everyone was on it, and initially, no one was.

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Ani: Wow, that's fascinating. I haven't heard network effects used that way before—it's usually in social networks or collaboration tools like Slack or Figma. You mentioned the modern data stack earlier; could you share your thoughts on that and how AI and tech advancements might change the data landscape?

Bob Moore: The modern data stack is crucial to me. At RJ Metrics, we were disrupted by it, but at Stitch, it was key to our success.

It's like the Jim Barksdale quote about business: there are only two ways to make money—bundling and unbundling. RJ Metrics was a unified suite, handling everything from data ingestion to visualization. The modern data stack unbundled this, leading to specialized solutions in ETL (like FiveTran), data warehousing (Snowflake, Redshift), modeling (DBT), and BI tools (Looker, Tableau).

This cycle of unbundling and rebundling occurs across tech sectors like marketing and sales. After years of unbundling, macroeconomic factors and AI are now pushing us towards rebundling. AI commoditizes interfaces, making differentiation harder for narrow solutions. This has led to a "Lord of the Flies" scenario in tools, where each integrates data but lacks enough footprint to dominate.

In sales tools, for example, many point solutions like Gong and Clary have converged into revenue orchestration platforms, integrating AI for insights. This strategy aims to expand TAM and prepare for the AI revolution, reshaping business strategy profoundly.

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Ani: Data is often an untapped gold mine. How do you handle it and keep your team informed?

Bob Moore: It's a constant challenge. As companies grow rapidly and enter new markets, standardizing metrics and maintaining institutional knowledge becomes crucial. Despite efforts with data dictionaries and documentation, success can be fleeting. What works today may need rethinking in six months. It's a dynamic process that's vital to adapt continuously to keep the business on track.

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Ani: Wow, okay. That makes a lot of sense, especially with so much data out there. At SpendFlow, we struggled with integrating data from various tools, which often led to analysis paralysis. For Crossbeam, what key metrics drive your success, and how do you prioritize them?

Bob Moore: One of our core values is "network first," which guides our decisions. It helped us navigate the initial challenges of building our network.

For example, maintaining a high K-factor is crucial. It reflects how viral our product is and indicates the health of our growth from product-led motions. Monitoring this helps us ensure our product's virality isn't compromised by monetization strategies that could hinder user adoption or growth.

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Ani: That's a lot of learning for me personally. Moving to rapid fire. Bob, first up, what tools are crucial for you?

Bob Moore: As a fully remote company, Slack and Zoom are essential for powering our operations. They're where our work gets done. Also, I'm an inbox zero person, so Superhuman helps me maintain a clean inbox daily, ensuring nothing slips through the cracks.

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Ani: Like I've been a big fan of Superhuman like Kratos. And the second one is, can you name one lesser-known tool in your stack that you can't live without?

Bob Moore: There's this tool called Magnet for Apple OS. It's a desktop client with shortcut keys that let me snap windows into specific orientations on my screen. It keeps me organized and productive without relying on the mouse, which I reserve for emergencies.

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Ani: Wow, amazing. I mean, coming from suffering myself, I hate using the mouse a lot. So I'm going to give that a shot. One more final thing in the rapid fire round: what is that one unorthodox tactic that has worked for you in recent times?

Bob Moore: I know it's a rapid fire round. Hmm. I think I'll give you a short story on this. I learned this from my co-founder at RJ Metrics and Stitch named Jake Stein.

We were in a VC pitch meeting once, probably around our Series A in 2012 or 2013. We got a tricky question, and I gave what I thought was a strong, eloquent answer that ended up being a lot of fluff. After I finished, Jake simply said, "But if you want the real answer, we don't know." The VC looked at him, then at me, and said, "Thank you."

In that moment, I realized the incredible power of admitting when you don't know something. It's about intellectual honesty and facing uncomfortable truths. Since then, I've embraced being open about uncertainties and mistakes. It's not always about projecting an idealized image; it's about gaining respect, fostering accessibility, and relieving mental burdens by being authentically yourself in every conversation.

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Ani: Wow, I completely agree. I mean, if you're a fan of The Office, like the Reverend Michael Scott says, "It takes a big man to admit your mistake or say no." Right, so cool. I mean, going on to the last couple of questions. So one of them is that, with Crossbeam recently closing its Series C from A16Z and continuing to grow strong, it's clear you're in this for the long haul. So what does the future look like for Crossbeam? Where do you see it headed next?

Bob Moore: Yeah, Crossbeam is such a fun one because you can almost think about this business in three acts.

• Act one was about getting that network graph going, solving for the cold start problem, and establishing the core data asset. Everything up until now has been focused on proving out the concept and building a solid revenue base.
• Act two is where we're currently heading. We've built something valuable, unearthed a powerful data layer, and now we're bringing that into the hands of operators to run ecosystem-led growth strategies. We're integrating deeply into go-to-market software and data stacks across various teams like sales, marketing, and revenue operations.
• Act three is where I get really excited. We're starting to see companies build their entire businesses around access to Crossbeam's data, leveraging it for market analytics, strategy, and more. This could lead to an entire economy built on top of our ecosystem graph, similar to how late-stage publicly traded companies leverage their ecosystem for growth. I see us paving a path towards that future, where our ecosystem graph becomes a primary driver of growth and innovation.

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Ani: We have one final question. So Bob, you recently wrote a book called "Ecosystem-Led Growth," which is available on Amazon as hard copies and Kindle copies. The link, I'm going to leave it in the description of the video. Bob, could you give us a short pitch or a summary of what to expect from the book?

Bob Moore: Yeah, absolutely. "Ecosystem-Led Growth," published by Wiley. What would I be if I didn't have a copy on my desk? This book is a culmination of our work not just at Crossbeam, but in the ecosystem and industries surrounding us over the last five years.

Partner ecosystems are poised to become the most profitable, scalable mechanism for business growth in the next decade. The book explores this shift away from traditional outbound sales and advertising strategies towards leveraging ecosystems for growth. It delves into our journey at Crossbeam, the macro environment driving this change, and includes detailed playbooks from leading companies like Gong, Stripe, and Procore who have embraced ecosystem-led growth to transform their businesses.

We've been fortunate with a strong launch, making the USA Today National Best Seller List and gaining recognition in top nonfiction releases. It's been a surprising journey, but the book seems to be resonating well and sparking important conversations.

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